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Jere Krischel... again

We were discussing Guam and Hawaii. As usual and as typical he mistakenly think that everything fits in one shoebox. Life does not happen that way. Of course there are similarities but he tries to squeeze the similaries in order to possibly deny that there are significant differences between what happened to Guam and what happened to Hawaii. Of course my fingers hurt and cannot keep up and instead prefer to focus on my reading. I have so much reading to do. Of course I have learned a lot along the way. For example... I better keep up with my reading *L* In fact last night in bed I had to read more. Anyway here is an excerpt that Jere and I had about Guam and about Hawaii. Mine is in bold since I am right... and he is wrong. Just joking. It's not about being right or wrong. It's about me seeing some things wrong and trying to do some thing about it. What does he call me? The queen of the Ginger kids LOL Anyway I enjoy healthy discussions but he better not bash Hawaiians or else I going ignore him *LOL* Actually he is described as being Hawaiian which surprises me because he shows some racism against some Hawaiians via their race. Here is one of our many "discussions:"


Jere: Hawai’i wasn’t invaded by the U.S. - In fact, the U.S. government under Grover Cleveland tried to do everything they could to turn back the clock of revolution and restore the Queen to her throne.”

Me: But did he? NO. In fact the U.S. still illegally occupies Hawaii.


Jere: ”But alas, it was not up to the U.S. to decide the fate of Hawai’i -> it was up to Hawaiians.”


Me: How so when the total population of Hawaiians plummeted from about 800,000 in 1778 down to about 401,062 in 2001. Even if the first figure was of Hawaiians with 100% pure aboriginal blood in terms of the Haole definition… that is still nearly half of the Hawaiian population decimated. Also in 1887 most Hawaiians lost their right to vote per the Bayonet Constitution which resulted in non-Hawaiians and non-Hawaiian nationals comprising [sic] the majority of voters of the new quasi government. Not to mention the Marines and guns so it was not up to Hawaiians. And purposefully so. My question to you is why do you blame Hawaiians for being invaded?



Jere: “Kanaka maoli are treated different only insofar as the unfair, unjust, immoral and unconstitutional race based benefits they recieve.”


Me: My question to you is which Hawaiian history books have you read? Also I would like you to point out which “privileges” you claim that Hawaiians supposedly have with sources.


Jere: http://ns.gov.gu/history.html

It seems that guam was actually invaded by the spanish from 1521 - 1898, when guam was lost to the US after the Spanish-American war.”



Me: But were they invaded by the US? NO. Guam was under Spanish control since 1668 then in 1898 the Battle of Guam took place and the U.S. took possession of Guam had its first possession in the Pacific Ocean. The U.S. did NOT overthrow their government like how it did with the Hawaiians’ government. This of course was obvious upon the Organic Act of 1950 which provided for the structure of the island’s government.

Then in World War II Japan invaded Guam. 1944. That is when the U.S. returned to recapture Guam from Japanese military occupation. The Organic Act of 1950 established Guam as an unincorporated organized territory of the United States and provided for the structure of the island’s government.

Even the Immigration and Nationality Act of 1952, section 307, granted U.S. citizenship to Guam’s population but the U.S. did NOT overthrow their form of government as it did to HAWAIIANS.




Jere: “If anything, guamanians can truly claim that they were conquered and subjugated ->”

Me: Not quite as they have their own government while Hawaiians’ nation was overthrown and the queen was imprisoned.



Jere: ” kanaka maoli worked with haoles to unify the islands uner Kamaheameha the Great, and built up a multi-racial multi-cultural society that transformed into a constitutional monarchy with Kamehameha III, and that monarchy was overthrown internally by the Committee of Safety,”



Me: I agree.



Jere: “who then founded a republic, who then voluntarily asked the US to make it a territory.”


Me: I agree but would add “greedily” as it was about money and power too.



Jere: “Big difference from being won in spoils of a war. Kanaka maoli shared the reins of power from the very beginning - guamanians had no choices.”



Me: I disagree. Both Hawaiians and Chamorro have unique experiences… no one worse than the other. However the two nations experiences with the U.S. were and continue to be significantly [sic] different as explained above.



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